Comments on: Frameworks vs. Libraries in PHP

By: Welches Framework nun? | Der ewige Anfänger

Welches Framework nun? | Der ewige Anfänger — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:12:51 +0000

[...] Einen lesenswerten Artikel über das finden der passenden Library für ein Team habe ich im Blog von David Otton gefunden: http://www.otton.org/2008/08/05/frameworks-libraries-php-zend/ [...]

By: aur1mas » Blog Archive » Skaitiniai (III)

aur1mas » Blog Archive » Skaitiniai (III) — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:39:53 +0000

[...] libraries vs. frameworks in PHP – pavadinimas manau viską pasakantis [...]

By: Ralfs PHP und Zend Framework Blog » Blog Archiv » PHP Frameworks im Vergleich

Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:21:00 +0000

[...] einen Nachricht auf der Website des PHP Magazins bin ich auf einen interessanten Blogbeitrag von David Otton [...]

By: ikhsan

ikhsan — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 01:08:30 +0000

PHP is my first server script that i have learned, starting with hardcoding until the application code looked like spagheti inside….very messy. So i learn about framework, application architecture, application design, postnuke, joomla, drupal, the last is cakePHP. Once i and some of my friend created a PHP Framework specialized for creating single screen web application using AJAX, and now still underconstruction.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/cdmx/

After some years experience with PHP i try to using ruby, but i don’t know i don’t like it at all. Until now i really think that we can’t simplify the solutions….it’s never happen one solution for all, besides i think software is combination between engineering and art.

Its true and abolutely agree the framework is exist for make easier to develop application, but in fact the problems is very dynamic. PHP with his silly programming conventions is giving the flexibility to us to provide an idea for some problem, so why i don’t like ruby that tried to ‘bridle’ the creativity some ‘crazy’ programmer.

By: Alan Pinstein

Alan Pinstein — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 00:07:48 +0000

I agree very much with the tradeoffs presented in this article. We had a similar conversation last year at the Atlanta PHP users group.

The fact that many frameworks solve simple problems but then you are very stuck if the framework hasn’t contemplated your particular need was a fact I wasn’t willing to live with. However, having used the Cocoa API for Mac development, I was also sure that I wanted a framework to vastly improve development time and reduce the amount of code that needs to be written and maintained.

I ended up writing my own framework called PHOCOA, which is open-sourced (http://phocoa.com). I tried very hard to minimize the dependencies and keep things very loosely coupled.

For instance, we use Propel as the ORM. However, there is almost no coupling between the framework and Propel, other than the initial bootstrapping and of course the code-gen system. It is all done via interfaces such as Key-Value Coding that allows the framework to talk to the object model without knowing how it works. This level of indirection would allow you to easily write your own back-end or use another back-end without having to re-write the higher-level parts of code.

Everyone of course has their opinion, but after years of working with “library only” and “full stack frameworks”, I tend to prefer frameworks if they are well-written. Just my 2 cents…

By: Stevie Wonders

Stevie Wonders — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:33:23 +0000

Oops, sorry for the extra post. I meant to mention that I enjoyed the article. I’m currently in that mode mentioned by austin_web_developer above. So this helped me out.

By: Stevie Wonders

Stevie Wonders — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:31:42 +0000

Ummm. Just picking a nit, but the pic above shows a pozidrive and a flat head. Wouldn’t the caption make more sense if the pic were actually a pozidrive and a phillips?

By: Frameworks vs. Libraries in PHP (why I choose frameworks)

Frameworks vs. Libraries in PHP (why I choose frameworks) — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:33:35 +0000

[...] Otton (who I’ve never met) has an interesting take on the old Framework vs. libraries debate, that I identify [...]

By: Tony Bibbs

Tony Bibbs — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:27:55 +0000

How’d PEAR miss any mention in this? Zend Framework is basically PEAR minus the “framework” components PEAR has refused to allow (MVC implementation, etc). Oh, and the fact ZF doesn’t ship anything as individual packages is the real shame. I complain about that every chance I get. Kudos on this post though, people need to get away from the all-or-nothing frameworks out there.

–Tony

By: austin_web_developer

austin_web_developer — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:11:52 +0000

You have a very interesting take on the library vs Frameworks debate.
Having gone through the same internal debate (in my head) and come out on the side of Frameworks, I will say that giving yourself over to the framework is the hardest thing for a developer to do.

Developers create and design systems. A framework takes away a lot of the design options off the table from the onset, and odds are you’ll love 70 – 85% of the conventions and hate the rest.

Putting yourself in the hands of a system that you don’t 100% agree, is a tough thing to do, but I think the ease with which I can get a web application going + not having to completely re learn my code base after I’ve been away from it for weeks makes frameworks (Cakephp especially) a winner in my book.

Also remember that frameworks usually include libraries (sort of) in the form of gems (Rails) or plugins (Cake). So in a way, you get the best of both worlds … no?